Putting Pen To Paper

This is the complete "Festival of Atlcualo" story. 5,100 words. The longest thing I've ever written. I have to turn it in on Sunday but I'd like to turn it in sooner if it's ready. I'd love to get your opinions on it. In the class, I've submitted Chapters 1 and 3 for assignments and the biggest comments I have are that Three-Crocodile is hard to connect to and that my point of view needs work so that I am consistently relating the story from Three-Crcodile's perspective. Of course, there's a lot of complaining about the names being unpronouncable, but that just takes practice. Perhaps I'll put a pronunciation guide with the final story. Anyway, any comments at at all are welcome.

I submitted chapter 1 of this story in my last class assignment. Here are the class comments on Chapter 1.

Cathy Chance: David: Just a question: what is a "cenote"? I realize this is an exerpt, but in the full story, defining this would be a help. Also, instead of repeating the term, perhaps use descriptors to help us visualize what it is. This is certainly a dramatic scene. I would assume in the full story that most of these characters would have already been introduced. Thus, in this scene, I'd limit the identifiers. This can help pick up the pace. Also, you might need to pay a little more attention to point of view. Are you using an omniscient narrator, who can tell us what everyone is thinking or are you using a more limited third person, such as 3-Croc? I personally think focusing the pov on 3-Croc would be most effective. In that case, show us what is happening through his eyes. The "fear and horror swam across Three-Crocodile's face" if we are in his pov, doesn't work. You next go into 3-Croc's thoughts, so it does seem we're in his pov. So: pick up the pace and work on the pov. This is shaping up well.


Kim Huett: Apparently, a cenote is "a deep sinkhole in limestone with a pool at the bottom that is found especially in Yucatán." I actually thought it was something else (related to ashes b/c of the Spanish word 'ceniza'). Regarding this sentence (and perhaps others like it): “Lord Pochotl, Ehecatl's First, pointed to the inside edge of the cenote.” For the purposes of moving the story along, I think it might be better to remove the appositive “Ehecatl’s First” from the line…unless it’s vital to the story at this moment that we know his position. I do not have a problem with the nature of the Nahuatl names, but the number of names can get confusing and distract from the action, I think. In the first paragraph, you say “the rain god, Tlaloc.” In another paragraph you say “Tlaloc, god of the rains and waters.” Later, someone says “Tlaloc sends nourishing waters to the Lords of..” Unless you’re emphasizing Tlaloc’s function to heighten the ornate feel of the passage, I don’t think that it’s necessary to remind the reader of who he is. Once is enough for me, anyway. I thought that “ceaselessly noisy jungle” could be simplified if you find one potent adjective to cover “ceaselessly noisy.” I think this is a very well-written piece. It is elaborate and ornate. You have done so much studying, thinking, and imagining to get this all together. And I really kind of envy your passion for this setting and culture, etc. I will say one thing regarding my personal reading of this piece. And that is, that I don’t quite know how to relate to it. I don’t feel like I care much about the characters—or even just 3-Croc. I don’t know why, and maybe it’s not even necessary. It’s possible that earlier in the story these characters have been established, and the reader already cares for one or several of them. In this scene alone, though, I see them as an outsider, if that makes sense.


Cathy: A couple of things and I will try to not to restate what Cathy C and DeChancie have already stated. Try to keep wording simplistic and descriptive as possible, if a reader has to take the time to look up achaic or difficult terms they may feel that the reading for fun has turned into work. Is the Cenote hold some spiritual or sacrificial function? If so that should be better described and may add to the background of the story. This start demonstrates your creativity and imagination, interesting story.


WDavid: Mr. DeChancie....Overwriting is, I suppose, akin to overacting and the Ham seldom sees it, himself. Thanks for pointing it out. :-) This is a solemn religious event so my goal was to impart that feeling and to deliver high "church" ritualism. I'll review it and see if I can tone it down a bit and still maintain the mood.


WDavid: Cathy Chance...Kim gave the textbook definition of cenote. I thought it was a common enough term, myself, and knew it long before I began my research into this world. I tried to work in enough description and several synonyms so as to make it clear, but I'll review it and see what I can to to improve things. Sinkhole just doesn't impart the sense of mystery. :-) This is the first scene in the story (see the outline from assignment 4). This is the first time we are introduced to the characters so I had to give a bit more info here. Thanks for the comments on POV. The story is intended to be told from Three-Crocodile's POV and appreciate you pointing out that gaff. I'll keep my eye out for others.


WDavid: Kim...Thanks for the cenote definition. Actually, many cenote, this one included, have underground rivers at their bottoms, not just pools. Grammar theory has never been my strong suit so "appositive" was a new word for me. Thanks for making me look it up. :-) My use of "Tlaloc", "the rain god", and "the god of rains and waters" was my effort to avoid using "Tlaloc" every time I referred to that particular deity. It was done just to add variety but I will look things over and see what can be done to simplify the character and god name references. Scene one is a little crowded as it strived to introduce the characters, the setting, and the initiating event all at once. In scene two we see a bit more into Three-Crocodile's character and, I'm hoping, people really start caring about him there. There's only five scenes to the story though, so I guess I have to work hard and fast to get the reader's attention if I want them to care enough to finish the piece. On the topic of "outsider", Three-Crocodile is an outsider here as well. He's only marginally a priest and is looking in on rituals he's only just started to participate in (the blessing of the water and sealing of the vase) and he feels he may have screwed them up by mistake and cost the lives of his foster-father and friend. So, perhaps you perceiving yourself as the outsider here means you are already identifying with Three-Crocodile.


WDavid: Cathy...I will see what can be done to streamline my writing style. As for the purpose of the cenote, I thought that I made it clear that it was a holy place for sacrifices...a chasm to the underworld...twenty offerings to keep the evil spirits at bay...a river that carried offering to the lords of the underworld. I'm note sure how much clearer I could be that this is an important and sacred place. I'll look it over though and see what can be tweaked. :-)


astrogirl: You've certainly put a lot of thought into the setting. It has the feel of an Indian ceremony. I liked the detail where Lord Tayauh "extended his arms as he had two lifetimes ago..." It shows the disconnect for ThreeCroc between the beginning of the ceremony, the deaths, and the continuation, but I agree with some of the others that it would be nicer to be more inside ThreeCroc's head from the beginning. I think it would strengthen our response to the deaths.


laf: In a lot of ways, you're obviously very close to what you want ... powerful story, well thought out. I think Kim's suggestions on dealing with the names and titles is a good one (because you have us narrow-minded English speakers for an audience, it's something you'll need to keep in mind throughout). The POV at the end [of chapter one] is a minor problem ... but the bigger piece in identifying with 3 Croc could make the piece even stronger. If you let more of his emotions through, we'll be more involved: his excitement about having participated for the first time, his horror at seeing his foster father fall, his guilt as he blames himself ... You might try interspersing more of his thoughts, feelings, reactions, observations throughout the ceremony, so that you can strengthen and highlight more of these items.


Kim Huett: WDavid, I have great faith in your work! I think you're on a great track here. What you said about the outsider-ness and 3-Croc makes sense now. Keep on keepin' on, as they say.


Instructor DeChancie: Nothing wrong with solemnity. Just unbusy those sentences; don't make 'em work so hard. They'll do more for you, and the solemnity will be increased, churchy or not.

Only a few comments.

Should "priest" in the first paragraph be priests?

When he opens Pochotl's chest on the altar and reaches in for his heart, I would think the guy would already be dead from all that, but you say he's still alive until his heart is jerked from within. I find that hard to believe.

I like how Lord Tayauh seems to take Three Crocodile under his wing afterward as though he enjoys becoming his new tutor. I wonder though what your intentions are.. will he remain the comforting counselor, or is it all a ruse to draw close enough to find a way to eliminate Three-Crocodile?

I love how this story is progressing. Is it going further? I think you said once it was only a bedtime story someone is telling their child, so is there more, or is this it? I hope there's more. You have gained enough interest in Three-Crocodile that the reader wants to know what happens next.... not only in his life, but in the life of the babe.

Here are the comments from the instructor and the class on the complete "Festivla of Atlcualo" story.

Instructor DeChancie: "Fear and horror tore through Three-Croc." -- OK, fine. But then he "folds into a shivering crouch." One or the other, but both is too much. Better to stick to the concrete. He folds into a shivering heap or whatever, a concrete image that *conveys* the horror and that the horror is overwhelming. Keep to the concrete, the specific. "Monochrome costumes" is abstract. Better to show colors, even if there's only one. Impart the definite, the precise. Avoid the vague, the generic, the blanket term. You settle down eventually and begin to tell the story. That usually happens; you can't waste words if there's a story to be told. And this moves along pretty well. You have a clear protagonist, an antagonist (who gets what's coming to him), and a moment of revelation for the main character, and a final triumph. I can see nothing wrong with the dialogue, except that it may need some loosening up so as to distinguish ceremonial language from ordinary speech. Let's take a step back. I note the chapter headings. I take it this is a section of a novel. However, it won't work as a short story, I don't think, unless you somehow make bring the background forward. You [previously] mentioned contact with ancient Chinese culture, and I wonder if you can't bring some of that into this piece. That would alert the reader that this is an alternative version of history. Otherwise, the reader is going to be a trifle lost. Now, if you have no intention of sending this out as a stand-alone, then it becomes a matter of when you will let the reader in on the background. In a novel, you have all the time in the world, so it might not be so critical. You can take your time. But for a short piece, it's crucial that you get some of that exo-historical background to the foreground.


Instructor DeChancie: Let me add that I think WDavid has a shot at being a real writer. This shows though, care, and skill. Also knowledge of his subject matter. I think also that he needs more development and more of an eye toward the broader contours of his fiction. I do like the Chinese connection, and hope you develop it. That makes the Meso-American setting something other than historical, and therefore fantastic, squarely within the genre. OTherwise, this would be a quasi-historical novel. Not many of those.


Jeff: I must admit, I was a little lost at first. I like knowing something about the people I am reading about. That said, I liked the rest of the story. The writing is crisp and kept me wanting to read. Background on Three- Croc would have allowed me to feel more for him.


laf: It seems to me that anyone who could have invested the effort to research the history, and then extend to build an alternate history, certainly already has the "sticktoitiveness" needed for a novel (give yourself credit)! (and I don't have any new comments beyond that, except to mention that it is a good, complete, short story ... I think Mr. DeChancie's final comments are that it isn't in this genre (sf/f) without the elements that let us know we're in an alternate history, as it is, standalone right now)


Cathy: You are on your way...I find your story very interesting...and you are off to a good start on character development with Three Crocodile. You are, apparently, knowledgeable of the history of this area, and aware that this setting makes for an excellent story. This story is complex, because the lives of these people was complex, but your writing really highlights the issues. As you revise and work with an editor it will become even more refined. Go to some writers conferences if there are any in your area, I just returned from one and learned so much.


Robert: I enjoy your writing. You have a real knack for storytelling, and your world is quite well developed. I was wondering why Three Crocodile had the name he did - I'm glad it was finally explained. The problem I had with this story was that it just seemed a little rushed. Three Crocodile's vision and quest to save the children just seems to come out of the blue. I really didn't see it coming. I think your story could use more development of Three Crocodile's character so that the driving reasons behind his desire to change tradition are more apparent, so that his sudden conversion appears less arbitrary. Also, I don't know that the other priests would react so calmly to what amounts to a 13 year old boy seizing power. There needs to be some reason why the Old Priest was so accepting, otherwise it doesn't ring true based on our knowledge of human nature.


WDavid: Mr. DeChancie...Thank you. I appreciate all of the advice. This is exactly the kind of thing I need. :-) Yes, the world is an alternate history and I see this story as part of the world's ancient history...before contact with the Chinese and at least a century before Columbus...It's the culture in evolution from one with little regard for human life and heavily into human sacrifice to one with some basic human respect, if not actual rights. A culture that respects its citizens, at least in a small way, more will be more stable in it's long-term growth. This was meant as a stand alone short story and the Chapters were just a way to separate the scenes in my own mind and in the structure of the class. That said, I showed this to a couple of others and they are interested in the story going on and following Three-Crocodile to see how he develops in his new role as First of Tlaloc, how his new relationship with Tayauh evolves, how established powers in the city react to him and his "new path". Old traditions do not give way easily and this culture is not known for subtlety. If I carry it on perhaps I can even work this into a time period where first contact with the Chinese occurs in the story. I'm not really sure I have the sticktoitiveness to write a novel anyway. :-) In any event, I need to get this short story fixed first and your assistance here is GREATLY appreciated.

This - "Instructor DeChancie: Let me add that I think WDavid has a shot at being a real writer." is what I've been telling you all along. Congratulations!

The assignment for week four to write an outline for the story we plan to turn in for assignment 6

Here are the class comments for the outline.

Instructor DeChancie: OK, I read over the outline, and it looks pretty good, but let me ask this. Is this background historical, a variant of Meso-American history, or something you invented based on history? Or is the setting supposed to be another world/planet? I don't know enough about the subject to tell.


WDavid: This outline is for a story set in the world I created in assignment 2. It's a world I've been toying with for a long time and it's finally coming to fruition in sync with this class. You can read more about it at www.firstempires.com but, in brief, it is an alternate history where the native cultures of North and South America are as advanced and robust as any European country of the 15th and 16th century. The culture I'm exploring first is a melding of most of the meso-american cultures, Olmec, Mayan, and Aztec are the strongest influences.


Instructor DeChancie: OK, now I know. This is an "alternate history" story. Good. How would history have gone if....and then you posit alternative historical events. Sure. Now I understand. This idea has been done, and I wish I could cite something for you, but I can't right off the top of my head. Makes little difference. The theme is a long way from being exhausted. It's a fascinating premise, and you should continue to develop it. I like the idea of someone in this culture coming to the independent realization that there is something wrong with human sacrifice. That is a very nice hook on which to hang the whole story.


Cathy Chance: WDavid: This is an interesting story and I think it's really workable if you amp the tension throughout. What does 3-Croc have at stake? What's the risk to him if he doesn't kill the infant? ould he potentially be sacrificed himself? I think there has to be a real threat to him in making this moral decision. Also, I think you need to show some sort of revelation, rather than just facile justification to kill his antagonist and save the baby. To me, this felt more like a telling of myth than a fantasy story. You've given us here the background to the sacrifices performed in Aztec (I think) society. The "sense of wonder" is a little lacking. I'm sorry if this comes across as a little harsh. It's not meant to be. The flow of the story is here and you've already shown us you can create the characters. Keep working on it.


Kim Huett: I mostly have questions after reading this intriguing plot sequence: Does the reader get a sense that these gods really exist and have a hand in the human affairs? Or is it a situation where the priests successfully impose their religious interpretation on the people? Or neither? In 1c, I wonder if the chasm of divine or natural origin? Around 5e, I begin to feel like something is off…. All that plot sequence was leading up to this crisis with the sacrificial babe? And then a few plot sequences later, the story’s ended and 3-Croc is a major change agent in this meso-american religion? It seems too tidy. Perhaps the story could begin closer to that templetop moment, and you could explore the responses of the other priests and the people and show him sweating a little as he makes these bold moves. It seems too smooth and easy. You could show just how one pulls off something like this. It would be neat to read the story.


laf: Well, I'm either getting used to the names -- or they're easier to absorb when they're more spread out (I didn't find it to be a problem when going through the outline) :-) Overall, seems a tight story ... I am curious about the gods (real or only in the priests mind) since Tlaloc's will plays such a key roll in the climax of the story? Does he also lend the boy the strength to take out Pochotl? (even catching him by surprise, there would have been quite a size disparity between them (if he's still using a birth name, he's 7 or less, right?))
10/2/2006 9:45:20 PM


Joe: WDavid - I don't have much to offer here, beyond continuing encouragement. I'm totally engrossed with the premise, the setting, and the characters. You're an alchemist, concocting formulas for elements that would be fatal in the hands of another writer. This story is your own, continue to assert your mastery over it, and ignore any nagging little voices that might distract you from doing so. Keep writing, I'll keep reading. Peace - Joe.


WDavid: LAF...the reference I used said that the giving of an adult name happened after twenty of their 260 day sacred years. They considered the nine months of gestation (the base of their 260 day calendar) to have been his first year, so nineteen more makes the child 13.5 years old by our calendar. Since their mathmatical system is base 20 (ours is base 10) that seems a logical time. I made him 13 for the story and on the verge of his naming ceremony. Young, but not too young to accomplish the task. As for the act of taking down Pochotl, in moments of crisis humans are able to draw from untapped reserves of strength and endurance so why not here when Three-Crocodile believes his god's vision is threatened by Pochotl's interference? As for the reality of the gods...I may come across as a heretic here to many people, but I think their gods are about as real as the gods of our time. Visions and messages from on high come in all shapes and sizes and are left to the interpretation of the receiver. Who can say if your urge to have a corned beef sandwich for lunch is just a tasty idea or a vision placed there by a devine being? Is it simple hunger or god's symbolic way of telling you that vegetarianism is the devil's work? It is the prophet's ability to get his interpretation of the message across to a receptive audience at a key moment that gives the message weight and power.


WDavid: Kim...I think a lot of your questions are addressed in my message to LAF. As for the tidiness, yes, perhaps it is. I see Three-Crocodile's actions coming at a key moment when the people are hyped for a bloody ceremony and when it takes a new turn that both spares some of their children and still gives them bloody ceremonies, they're ready to accept it. There are, by all accounts, an ecstatic people and the supernatural is in every part of their daily lives. Also, their raised to be obedient to authority, so I don't see this as a big stretch.


WDavid: Cathy...You got me...this IS a fable. The "twist" if you want to call it that, that I was saving for the end, is that the story is a cultural myth that a father is telling to his son as a bed time story to explain both how sacrifices used to be and how they evolved to protect the children and punish the evil doers while still paying homage to the gods. For those of you who say "That's a sick and twisted bedtime story, dude!" then you shold try reading the original fairy tales of our own cultures. :-)

Sounds like you have a plan man. It's coming right along and I know it's going to be great. I must say though that the idea of an outline has changed a lot since I went to school back in dino days. We used to write an outline in a few brief words and maybe a sentence, not paragraphs. Oh well, time marches on and drags us along in the dust... Keep up the good work!